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DavidCh
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« on: June 22, 2006, 03:24:51 AM »

Hey everybody!

Having just finished my GCSE's I have decided to have a more detailed look into the sort of career I might be able/want to do (yes, I know - I've left it a bit late ^_^). Anyways, seeing as I am a bit lacking in direction and am hesitant as to what I would like to spend my life doing I thought I'd do some research on what a few areas entail, medical careers being one of the more appealing of these. Having done so, I still have no clue.

I was hoping I might be able to find someone/people whom I could have a chat to about careers in the medical industry so that I might be better informed in my decision. If anybody would be willing to oblige then I can be contacted through e-mail, MSN, AIM, or of course here. I won't post them all for obvious reasons but if you wouldn't mind having a chat then let me know.  Grin

Thank you all for your time

David
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shashikiran
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« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2006, 04:35:42 AM »

Hello David,
Welcome to Mediscuss.

So you have finished your GCSE and looking for a career. Are you in UK or Wales? If I may ask, what grade did you get (some A* would be great!)?

Let me begin by telling you that life in Medicine is tough. Not to dissuade you from taking Medicine, but to let you know clearly at the beginning.
Life in Medicine requires a lot of dedication, sacrifice and hardwork. It is very challenging and is one of the most satisfying careers that you can look forward to.

Though it is out of scope of this forum to give advice through chat/ e-mail, we will be more than happy to assist you with any further specific questions here.

Regards
Shashikiran
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DavidCh
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« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2006, 05:35:48 AM »

Hi Shashikiran,

First of all, thanks for taking the time to reply, it is much appreciated.

In response to your first question, I am in the UK and predicted mainly A* in my GCSE's (with A predictions for Business Communication Systems, English and Psychology), however as it happens my last exam was two days ago so I am waiting on my results. I'm a bit apprehensive as I feel that I could have done better but I'm not sure whether that's me having too high expectations, general exam nerves, or good instincts. I'll just have to wait and see.

As for the second point, I have already heard of some of the pressures associated with this sort of career while researching the option and I am just considering whether I am up to it. Before I left my school I was headboy for a year which placed upon me a lot of responsibility and pressure including public speaking, organising and working with a team of prefects/senior prefects and headgirl and general public relations/organising of events. I did perform quite well in this role and lived up to the pressure and time restrictions at first, however as the GCSE's grew nearer they took priority and my performance did deteriorate resulting in me becaming less efficient. One of my worries is something similar to this might happen if I take a career in medicine.

This relates to one of my main worries when entering a career in medicine; I feel I have the technical potential to do the job but I'm not sure I have the will power, drive and strength of character associated with it. Things like 'will I be able to keep up with the pressure and cope with the restrictions on the rest of my life,' or 'how I will cope if I fail a patient?'. I know I still have a long way to go in terms of growing up and there is still time to develop these sorts of qualities further, especially with the high expectations I set myself, however as I am making these decisions now it is a bit hard to take these factors into account.

I do know that I am looking for a job where I can help people and make a positive impact on their lives (I've had a taste of this when 'tutoring' some people in my year at school, and it's great when they finally get a concept or the like), however part of my apprehension comes from having a direct influence over other people's lives, which I tend to avoid for fear of making mistakes.

I guess what I'm asking is something along the lines of what was it like for you?
How did you cope?
Were you always sure of yourself?
How do you keep yourself motivated to do well in the role?

Whew, that was a bit of a hefty response to drop on you, but hopefully that should give you a bit of insight into my situation. I'm not sure I've fully expressed myself but I will leave it at that for now. Smiley

Thanks for your help ^_^

David

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shashikala
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« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2006, 07:23:46 AM »

Hi David,

First of all I want to congratulate you on your maturity, insight and thoughtfulness regarding the choice of a career. It is indeed good to know that there are students around who consider their strengths and weaknesses together before they jump into the actual fray of medicine. Since you have already these instincts, I am sure you can definitely make a good doctor.

You must also understand at this juncture that medicine is not an exact science and there may be times when you need to accept that you do not comprehend everything that's going on with your patient. To be a good doctor, one needs to know his/her limitations, and the fact that one may not be able to play God at all times.....

As you get into medicine you can pick up the right skills and attitude necessary. I can see that you are well motivated and with the desire to always take right decisions you will end up being one of the best....

Hope you get the results that you predicted in your GCSE,
Shashikala
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shashikiran
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« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2006, 08:08:20 AM »

Quote from: DavidCh
I am in the UK and predicted mainly A* in my GCSE's (with A predictions for Business Communication Systems, English and Psychology). I'm a bit apprehensive as I feel that I could have done better.

Great! Wish you the best with your GCSE results. It's natural to always feel that you could have done better. That's the secret of continuous improvement, isn't it?

Quote from: DavidCh
Before I left my school I was headboy for a year which placed upon me a lot of responsibility and pressure. I did perform quite well in this role and lived up to the pressure and time restrictions at first, however as the GCSE's grew nearer they took priority and my performance did deteriorate resulting in me becaming less efficient. One of my worries is something similar to this might happen if I take a career in medicine.

With all these experiences and learning associated with them, including the 'self-doubt' you have, I am sure that you have the necessary 'material' to make a good doctor. Life is a cycle and we have our ups and downs. Hence, if you feel less efficient at times, it is just an indication that you need to take a short break away from work.

Quote from: DavidCh
I feel I have the technical potential to do the job but I'm not sure I have the will power, drive and strength of character associated with it. Things like 'will I be able to keep up with the pressure and cope with the restrictions on the rest of my life,' or 'how I will cope if I fail a patient?'.

Will power, character and attitude will of course develop as you progress in your studies and acquire the necessary experiences. I can already see that you have the kind of attitude required.

How to cope if you fail a patient? It's difficult. However, you need to handle it in the same way you would handle any other similar stressful situation. First, your conscience should be clear that you tried to do your best, under the circumstances. Second, in case you did not perform to your best, look at it as a learning experience. Never do the same mistake again. That is why we always stress the concept of 'lifelong learning' to our students.

No one is 100% error-free. We can only try to be as error-free as possible. Read these for some insight into medical errors:
1. CNN 1999,
2. FDA 2000,
3. BMJ Medical Error collection

Quote from: DavidCh
I know I still have a long way to go in terms of growing up and there is still time to develop these sorts of qualities further, especially with the high expectations I set myself, however as I am making these decisions now it is a bit hard to take these factors into account.

I guess you are only about 16 years and you are right about growing up. You have a lot of time too.

Quote from: DavidCh
I guess what I'm asking is something along the lines of what was it like for you?
How did you cope?
Were you always sure of yourself?

Well, I also had my share of these experiences. Coping with these is a necessity and as long as you do not have any 'guilt' associated with the episode, there shold be no major problems.

You do need to believe in yourself. At times, we feel that we are not sure about ourselves, well, I have felt it many times, especially in diagnostic dilemmas. With time, you will learn to make the right decisions.

Quote from: DavidCh

How do you keep yourself motivated to do well in the role?

Motivation comes from 'within'. It is also aided by peer pressure and influences, healthy competetion and expectations by patients, students, colleagues and family members. Its multifactorial and generally very positive.

Hope I have addressed most of your queries...

Best,
Shashikiran
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DavidCh
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« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2006, 05:18:07 AM »

Hi David,

First of all I want to congratulate you on your maturity, insight and thoughtfulness regarding the choice of a career. It is indeed good to know that there are students around who consider their strengths and weaknesses together before they jump into the actual fray of medicine. Since you have already these instincts, I am sure you can definitely make a good doctor.

You must also understand at this juncture that medicine is not an exact science and there may be times when you need to accept that you do not comprehend everything that's going on with your patient. To be a good doctor, one needs to know his/her limitations, and the fact that one may not be able to play God at all times.....

As you get into medicine you can pick up the right skills and attitude necessary. I can see that you are well motivated and with the desire to always take right decisions you will end up being one of the best....

Hope you get the results that you predicted in your GCSE,
Shashikala

Hey Shashikala,

You sure know how do inflate a person's ego... got to watch that.

It's nice to have some insights into the profession by somebody who has already experienced it and you've helped settled some of the queries/ worries I had in my mind. Also, I've started to form an opinion on what it might be like (see next post). I've still got a big decision to make but I'll just have to see where it takes me.

One thing you said put me in mind of a quote I read on one of the resources above. You said that we may not be able to play God all the time and that we need to know our limitations. This was echoed in a way which I think sums it up nicely: Health professionals "are trained to memorize everything and are rewarded for it," says the pharmacology professor. "The medical student who says, 'I don't know; I've got to look it up,' is likely to fail an exam, yet that's the one who is less likely to make an error." Woosley hopes medical students will be taught to accept their limitations and admit their mistakes. This is a valuable lesson for me and I'm glad I've learnt it now, not later.

Thanks for the encouragement, I'm sure it is well needed and we'll wait and see if it is well deserved. It means a lot to me - I'll bear what you've said in mind.

David
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DavidCh
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« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2006, 05:18:55 AM »

Great! Wish you the best with your GCSE results. It's natural to always feel that you could have done better. That's the secret of continuous improvement, isn't it?

With all these experiences and learning associated with them, including the 'self-doubt' you have, I am sure that you have the necessary 'material' to make a good doctor. Life is a cycle and we have our ups and downs. Hence, if you feel less efficient at times, it is just an indication that you need to take a short break away from work.

Will power, character and attitude will of course develop as you progress in your studies and acquire the necessary experiences. I can already see that you have the kind of attitude required.

How to cope if you fail a patient? It's difficult. However, you need to handle it in the same way you would handle any other similar stressful situation. First, your conscience should be clear that you tried to do your best, under the circumstances. Second, in case you did not perform to your best, look at it as a learning experience. Never do the same mistake again. That is why we always stress the concept of 'lifelong learning' to our students.

No one is 100% error-free. We can only try to be as error-free as possible. Read these for some insight into medical errors:
1. CNN 1999,
2. FDA 2000,
3. BMJ Medical Error collection

I guess you are only about 16 years and you are right about growing up. You have a lot of time too.

Well, I also had my share of these experiences. Coping with these is a necessity and as long as you do not have any 'guilt' associated with the episode, there should be no major problems.

You do need to believe in yourself. At times, we feel that we are not sure about ourselves, well, I have felt it many times, especially in diagnostic dilemmas. With time, you will learn to make the right decisions.

Motivation comes from 'within'. It is also aided by peer pressure and influences, healthy competition and expectations by patients, students, colleagues and family members. Its multifactorial and generally very positive.

Hope I have addressed most of your queries...

Best,
Shashikiran

Hi again,

Firstly, thank you for answering my response in such detail. It was very informative and helpful - you have a lot of keen insights.

I don't think my mind has really been settled about making a mistake/ living up to the role but I at least understand the situation a bit better now thanks to you both (you are two different people right? Apologies for my ignorance but you both have similar names and power on the boards. >_<). I now understand that should I decide to become a doctor I probably would make mistakes and I wouldn't be able to expect the families to forgive me for that, but if everybody let that stop them we wouldn't have any doctors left. We are only human. I think maybe as time goes on we will develop more checks - and possibly more problems - but perhaps it would be nice to have a part in trying to improve the healthcare systems both in terms of patient's rights and doctor's freedoms to do what they were trained to do. The responsibility and chance of making a mistake is part of being a doctor and I think maybe that if it doesn't 'break you', it will help you to keep me motivated and help develop the characteristics needed. Thank you for the resources you provided me with, they were very helpful in understanding this.

Also, thanks for sharing a bit of what you have learned from being a doctor. I'm grateful for these insights. I guess these past too posts have been more about me organising the thoughts in my mind rather than seeking advice, but I'll post them anyway - just in case you have any relevant insights or corrections to share.

And finally, I do have one more question, which popped into my head as I was writing this response. On the other side of things, how much of you life does being a doctor/ surgeon consume? Would I end up spending my entire life in a hospital? I guess if I do become a doctor I don't want really to let my social life, any relationships or any hobbies I have die for that, as it's those sorts of things that will help keep me human... and motivated.

Thank you again for all your help - both of you

David

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shashikala
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« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2006, 08:48:54 PM »

Hi David,

Good luck with your results. Hope to see you interacting more and more as you take up medicine...

Regards,
Shashikala
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DavidCh
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« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2006, 04:53:43 AM »

Hi David,

Good luck with your results. Hope to see you interacting more and more as you take up medicine...

Regards,
Shashikala

Hiya,

Thanks. Although I haven't fully decided whether I will or not yet, it's a definite option - I've yet to see much else that takes my interest as keenly. I'll keep you posted as things develop. ^_^

David
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shashikiran
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« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2006, 09:09:37 AM »

Hello,

That's good that you have still have it as an option Smiley

And, BTW, we are two different people. Yes, I am an admin and shashikala is moderator...

Quote from: DavidCh
And finally, I do have one more question, which popped into my head as I was writing this response. On the other side of things, how much of you life does being a doctor/ surgeon consume?

It does take a significant amount of time, sometimes at wrong times... but we do learn to take it all in our stride. Once you have a family of your own, you need to have a spouse who can 'understand' and support you during such times. Otherwise it may be very stressful. That is why in my first post itself, I did make a mention of 'sacrifice'.

It also depends on what kind of medicine you get into. Obstetricians, Anestheliogists and Emergency physicians face most of this brunt. Dermatologists escape this altogether, almost. Others are all somewhere in between in the spectrum. After you graduate, you will still have the choice with you. Read this article from Australian Medical Journal.

Quote
Our findings confirm that choice of specialty is a complex decision, strongly influenced by personal attributes and preferences (intrinsic factors) followed by contact with the work environment (extrinsic factors), and, for women in particular, their domestic circumstances. Extrinsic factors of greatest importance are the work culture typical of the specialty, work experience since graduation, opportunity to work flexible hours, influence of consultants/mentors, and hours of work typical of the specialty. For 80% of doctors, the decision about choice of specialty is made by the end of PGY 3.
Experience with discipline-based work cultures and working conditions occurs throughout medical school and the early postgraduate years, and most doctors choose their specialty during these years.

These references may also be useful for you:
1. Variation by medical school in career choices of UK graduates of 1999 and 2000
2. Reasons for considering leaving UK medicine
3. Characteristics of consultants who hold distinction awards in England and Wales
4. Doctors' views of their first year of medical work and postgraduate training in the UK

Have fun reading them and their related articles. Some of them have only abstracts available. However they will definitely stir the analyst in you...

Shashikiran
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DavidCh
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« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2006, 10:12:55 AM »

Hi,

Thankies very much for the response/ information. ^_^ In relation to the surveys, although rather abstract in subject they did help to give a statistical view of things I might not have otherwise considered. Smiley Rather useful.

I'm still rather clueless as to what my final decision on what I study in college will be - but I'm certainly more inclined toward medicine than I was. I've got some time to decide though, so maybe time will tell. Who knows - maybe I'll be asking you for homework help in a few years time. Tongue

Thanks,

David
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shashikiran
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« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2006, 11:50:43 AM »

Who knows - maybe I'll be asking you for homework help in a few years time. Tongue

You are always welcome Smiley
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« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2006, 04:17:37 AM »

Hi all,

It's been a while, but I thought I'd just post (for anybody who's interested) and let you know that I'm getting my results tomorrow. Smiley I'm rather nervous, but I'm trying not to fret about it (too much) as that won't change anything.

I hope you are all well.

Wish me luck all. ^_^

David
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shashikiran
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« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2006, 02:22:25 AM »

Hello David,

I am replying quite late and I think by now your your result should have been announced. Curious to know your result and your future plans. Hope you have got a good score that facilitates your plans for the future.

Regards
shashikiran
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DavidCh
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« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2006, 07:13:36 AM »

Ahoy!

Thanks for the interest. Despite my initial apprehension, I couldn't really have hoped for better! I got 2 A's and 9 A*'s. ^_^

My next step now is to decide what I want to do at college, with which some help would be appreciated. Smiley

I've divided the subjects I might study into two categories.

First: For Med School
 - Mathematics
 - Biology
 - Chemistry
 - Physics

Second: What interests me
 - English literature   
 - ICT or Computing 
 - Fast track Spanish 
 - Philosophy   
 - Maths         
 - Physics                 
 - Chemistry (to an extent)   
 - Biology (to an extent)

Provisionally, I'm considering the study of Chemistry (as I've heard this is preferred by med schools), Mathematic and Philosophy. The final two I might choose to take would probably be chosen from the rest of the second list, the only problem is deciding which ones I want to do!

I guess what I'm asking is; firstly what would you suggest as the best combination for getting in to Med School, and secondly would the three I am considering suitable and would any of the second list be of more help than the others?

Anyhoo, I think that's enough rambling. Thanks for all of your support over the last couple of months - it's been rather helpful. I'm sure I'd be seriously lacking in direction without your help - at least I have a basic frame work to work around now. Smiley

Looking forward to hearing from you,

David
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